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Hutch shared this idea on July 19, 2009 20:55.
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Arielle Community Manager
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travis wade Employee
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Sound Volume adjustment and auditory rewards
How do you turn down the volume on the 'animations'? I've tried turning down the volume on 'other parts of the program' but it is still loud. I tried turning down the volume on the 'main' part (upper volume bar), and the "reward 'ding'" sounded, but the next animation was still somewhat loud. Thanks.
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Inappropriate?Dear Hutch,
You have discovered that the All Other Sounds setting does not completely mute the sounds as you would like them to. If you've got the KOSS headphones you can be 'at your ready' and use the slider on the headphone cord to mute those sounds that are not pleasing to you.
Regards,
Dana JV -
Inappropriate?It would be really nice if the All Other Sounds setting would at least let the other sounds get quieter (even if not mute). Maybe when you do an update, you could let that setting go a couple notches quieter?
I especially would like the ding to be quieter. I don't mind the single dings so much because they're over so quickly—but when I do well on something, like I have been on the matching exercise, the ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding that I keep getting afterwards is really bothersome, like someone holding a glass and rapping a knife against it repeatedly, right next to my ear—unmelodic and insistent—while I cringe and wait for it to be over.
In truth, it isn't exactly LOUD (not really loud at all, because I have the overall volume set to be quite quiet, and the All Other Sounds slider as low as it goes—so it doesn't actually _hurt_ my ears, just sort of confronts and offends them.)
I didn't mean my first post here to be negative; I'm only on my third day and mostly excited and enjoying the program a lot.
Sus
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Well...never mind about what I wrote yesterday. I started up the Brain Fitness program this morning, and it seems that the volume adjustments I made yesterday were not actually having their intended effect yesterday. It must have required quitting and relaunching the program. The dings are ever-so-faint now. Just right. -
Hi Sus - Thanks so much for posting this concern. We've actually heard it from quite a few folks that the volume options need to allow a lower range, but you're the first to document it on the new community site, which we very much appreciate. I'm glad that rebooting resolved it, however in general the volume adjustments should take place in real time and should not require a reboot. I'm wondering if perhaps your regular system volume for the computer received an adjustment as well? I'm actually going to turn this thread into an "Idea" so that your comments are more visible to our development team. I like your idea of allowing All Other Sounds to get a bit lower (without the need to adjust your regular system volume, or your headphones, or reboot...)
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Inappropriate?Errr...I just realized my mistake. Rebooting had nothing to do with the improvement this morning. And actually, the problem is _not_ solved. This morning it turns out I had accidentally plugged my headphones into the wrong port, so no sound was coming _through_ them, and what I was hearing was the sound from the computer's speaker, reaching me from _outside_ the headphones. So that's why the ding was so nicely muffled (and that also probably explains why I did really badly on "Tell Us Apart" today!)
I still have "Match It" left to do today. Now that I've switched the headphones to the correct port, I know I'll be getting the clearest possible exercise sounds, at least. I think that each time I finish a grid -- which is when I get the long long series of dings -- I'll just snatch the earphones off, or try pressing the mute button on the keyboard.
So, yes, this still will be an issue for me; the dings (even the single ones) were so much better when I was hearing them from outside the padding of my headphones. It would be nice if they could be that faint all the time, without compromising the clarity of the exercises. So I'm glad this thread is now an "Idea" because I really would like that option of turning it low. I know the ding is important as an immediate mark of success, so I see why you don't want to let people turn it so low they can't hear it. (My just-right volume might be someone else's inaudible volume). So maybe you could have people do a test before letting them go very low -- some excercise to verify the ding is audible before they're allowed to choose that low setting.
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Thanks for clarifying, that makes sense! I totally agree with your suggestions. In the interim, our users basically have 2 workarounds. 1) if you have KOSS headphones, use the volume slider on the cord to quickly adjust volume. 2) lower the system volume (audio settings) on your computer before you launch BFP. Again, thanks so much for taking the time to address this issue. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to make this a more comfortable experience going forward.
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Thanks for the response, Arielle!
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I agree with the comments that the sound level adjustments don't match all the sound sources from the program. I also have the problem that I get the sound satisfactory in one task, and its not right for the next task, ie OK for High or Low? but not OK for Sound Replay.
This may be in part due to the sounds having different characteristics, but I think that they could be a better match between tasks, eg by average dB, or integrated dB.∆t, or average intensity, or total sound energy, etc - whichever works best.
And, when I type this comment, I can only see two lines - to read it over, I'd like to see the whole entry at the same time before posting. -
This comment was removed on 01/28/10.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?Have you tried maximizing the Exercise Volume as well as minimizing All Other Sounds?
Then when you reduce the volume on the Koss phones to reduce the Exercise Volume back to a softer level it will have the effect of reducing the dings further.1 Comment Add a comment
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Thanks for that suggestion. I had actually done that at one point (maximized the excercise and minimize the other) but hadn't realized it needed to be done anew in each exercise. So now I do have it at the minimum. Still not as quiet as I'd like, but better. Thanks.
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Inappropriate?I wouldn't have nearly such a problem with the "ding" volume if the program didn't have spots where there were ~20+ of them in a row. At the end of the matching game, specifically, there are so many dings it feels like being hit over the head! I understand it wants to get across the idea this is a "bigger" reward than a single ding because you finished the grid, but can we be reasonable? If I'm feeling like I have to mute the volume to get through it, and so is Sue, then something has gone wrong with this being a "reward" - at least for some people.
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?At least on the Mac version, this aspect of the program is very annoying and needs to be fixed. I constantly try to minimize volume on all other sounds and it never holds. It's the thing i like least about BFP.
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I use a mac too, and I'm not sure about this but I _think_ that once you set it in a particular exercise, it stays that way and will be set that way each time you open the program. But the _other_ exercises won't be set that way unless you do it in each one. (I guess that's because people might have different preferences for different exercises.) Anyway, in my limited experience the sound settings I've made for individual exercises have stuck.
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FWIW this is not my experience. The levels do not stay adjusted and seem to revert back immediately.
JP -
Thanks for sharing this jimmymio. I'm going to follow up with QA and see if they've run into similar issues in testing. What version of OSX are you running?
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Thanks Arielle. I'm on OS 10.4.11.
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In case it's useful to know my set-up (because unlike jimmymio's, mine _is_ retaining the volumes I've set) I'm using 10.4.11, on an intel mac. I have the Sennheiser headphones, not Koss.
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I've checked in with QA and tech support. They actually say that the volume adjustment will NOT stick after you've exited a particular exercise and that you will need to readjust the next time you use each exercise. Sus' experience actually is an anomaly. This is a good spot for this feedback, as we can add "remember user settings" to the overall feature request for volume control. (Note: the volume adjustment should hold for the duration of the exercise where you made the adjustment.)
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Thanks Arielle. I haven't done the program in several months and I can't say for sure but my recollection is that often, the changed settings do not last for the duration of the exercise in which the adjustment was made.
And Sus, we use the same OS but my Mac isn't Intel. Might have some bearing.
JP -
This comment was removed on 01/28/10.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?I n various exercises (not just Match it) there are short burst of dings on occasion, in the middle of the exercise -- and to me they have no more meaning than a single ding (telling me I got that one answer right). That’s what I’m focused on -- the one answer and whether it was right or wrong; it’s relevant information. Anything past one ding is extraneous, because I am not interested in points or whatever it is that all those dings mean. (I do know that they must have some specific meaning, and that it’s supposed to mean something good.)
In the manual it describes how much variety there is in the way people attend to and value the different kinds of feedback and rewards offered by the program. I guess that the difference with sound is that it’s a little more intrusive than the others; I can tune out the points, and even the reward window when I’m really concentrating (Actually, i sometimes like the reward window, but I also sometimes tune it out without even trying). I can’t tune out the sound, though -- and actually don’t want to because I need to hear that _one_ ding immediately after I’ve clicked on my response, to know if it’s correct. In Match it, the only dings I care about are the ones that signal a match (and I care quite a lot about those!). That whole flurry of them at the end is just telling me what I already knew (that I did well -- lots and lots of clicks leftover). Like Ricky said, it’s like being hit over the head with it. :-)
Another approach (if you plan to make a change in the program) is not just to allow the dings to be made quieter, but to offer the option “Do you want to hear multiple dings each time you’ve accumulated XX points (or go up a level, or whatever)?” and “Do you want to hear lots and lots of dings when you finish match it with lots of clicks to spare?” That would respect the different ways that you already know people respond to such things.
I’m interested in hearing the perspective of someone that _likes_ the multiple dings that occur in the middle of exercises or at the end of match it. Or someone that keeps track of their points and finds it worthwhile. I’d like to understand it because I know it’s true that people’s preferences differ that much, and it’s always interesting to hear the perspective.
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I'd love to hear from somebody who loves the multiple dings too, like Sue I can't understand it being a pleasing sound!
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Inappropriate?Hi Rick, Sus et al - Travis from R&D at PositScience here. Just wanted to let you know we are indeed reading these very helpful posts and considering them as we build future versions of the product.
A lot of thought is going into allowing users to customize more of the program, since this is likely to lead to an experience that is as rewarding (and therefore effective) as possible.
One possibility is that you would be able to be able to set (or even import) reward and other sounds in much in the same way that you can select, for example, ringtones and images on a cell phone, and change them whenever you like. The same would go for other basic look-and-feel attributes and text and language settings.
Would this option be appealing to you in general? What other things would you like more control over, besides sound volume?3 Comments Add a comment
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oops, Ricky, not Rick. Sorry, should have proofread...
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Travis, I would find this EXTREMELY helpful. First for the reward sound, as I could pick a sound that I found pleasing but also non-intrusive.
Picking my own text size/colour would be very helpful because of my low vision. If I could pick a REALLY BIG FONT it would help a lot with accessibility of the program for me.
I'd like to be able to select images for the reward options too - there are heaps of ways an image could be selected, cropped to size, then warped via an algorithm on the fly. That'd let me have photos that I actually enjoy - for example pictures of family or times of happy memories. -
Hi Travis
In addition to allowing more control over volume, I’d like to see (as described in detail in my post above) the option of turning off “multiple dings”
I’d like a choice of ding sounds. I wouldn’t really care about being able to using my very own sound (though maybe if I tried I’d like it) but maybe offer 5 choices or so. I ‘m sure there could be alternate dings that are just as clear as the current ding, but sound prettier to my ears. I’m thinking a musical instrument (triangle? harp?) would be the place to look for various single, pretty-sounding notes. Oh and for the harp, say, if you had the “multiple dings” option turned on, you’d get a beautiful, drawn out chord.
In terms of the animations, it seems to me there might be a few preferences you could ask users about, in order to filter out animations they are likely to find boring or aversive. One relevant preference might be whether the person likes or dislikes “slapstick” kind of humor. One of the first themes I tried was “pets,” and one of the first animations, if I’m remembering it clearly, involved a prairie dog popping out of a hole, and a dog bashing him on the head so hard he saw stars. To me that seems violent and aversive. Subsequent ones weren’t so violent but frequently a character in the animations ends up frustrated, flustered or discouraged, and those tend to bring me down rather than amuse me.
Or instead of offering preferences in the form of options for the user to check, maybe you could have the user express preferences by offering a wide variety of animations in the very beginning (during calibration and/or the first day’s exercises) and having the user indicate after each one how they liked it.
Or maybe at the very end of the first few days’ exercises, somewhere in the results screen, there could be a button saying “Tailor the next sessions’ animations to your preferences!” and it takes you to a screen which shows you thumbnails of all the animations you’ve seen so far (which you can click on to view a short clip of again, in case you forgot what they were like), and you get to drag them around from most preferred to least preferred. And then the program behind the scenes is calculating which other animations you’re likely to enjoy, and is ready to offer those (and avoid ones you’re likely to hate) during you subsequent sessions.
I do like it that the program offers themes and animations; I don’t think I’d like to have to supply my own, because that wouldn’t have the element of novelty.
Speaking of novelty, I really like the colors theme (some of the color combinations I find beautiful) but the progression of colored squares top to bottom, left to right, seems so (unnecessarily) predictable. Why not shake things up a bit by having them sometimes appear in a different order -- or perhaps build in alternately from both sides, gradually closing the gap in the middle. Also, other shapes besides squares would be nice. For example, consider something like a child’s set of mosaic or parquetry tiles (you know the kind with triangle, diamond, and square-shaped tiles of all different colors, and all the different, beautiful designs you can make with those). Buy a set and play with them and maybe you’ll be inspired.
Oh yes, one other idea I had, which I just remembered. How about have a songbirds theme, with animations featuring our local songbirds, with songs and calls that are accurate for that particular bird. (Being tuned in to sounds, we might even learn to recognize their songs while we think we’re just enjoying the animations!). And since “local” songbirds depends on where you live, you could sell several add-on packs “Birds of the western states,” “Birds of the mid-atlantic states,” etc. I like the idea of birds because they seem cheery and free and they have beautiful songs. Maybe you could even give people the option of choosing from an assortment of one-note bird call s, in place of a day’s dings.
Susanna -
Inappropriate?Uhm, Ricky,....I actually like the multiple dings...for me it's kind of exciting and reinforcing...I do use the sound volume button on my computer keyboard as well as the slider on the BFP to get the exact sound level for the exercises--and I find that when I get to Sound Replay or Listen and Do, I have to turn the volume down a little from the earlier segments.
I agree with the original post about the animation sounds--for a time I was struggling with Hi or Low, and would be thrown off by the animation sounds--I got so I would select the "colors" theme, then restart the program after that so I could have a theme I liked better (but that had louder sounds).
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Inappropriate?I don't mind the dings. I do adjust the sound from exercise to exercise to get it just right.
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Inappropriate?I set the volume at the beginning of the exercise and leave it there. The increase in volume does not bother me. I am enjoying these exercises and believe they are helping me hear / process better.
Daily I only do the 15 minutes and the following day pick up with where I left off.
I also enjoy doing the Word Wanderer daily. This is a fun program. Thank you.
Joyce
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That's cool Joyce! I'm only doing 15 minutes a day also, working the same way you are, and it seems to be working well. I'm very sensitive to loud sounds though which probably makes a difference - when there's more than twenty dings in a row it's really loud! Hope your great results keep being great :)
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Inappropriate?Has anyone at Posit updated on this recently? On my system (Mac G5 OS10.4.11) the volume behavior is clearly a bug. I do the "Tell Us Apart" exercise with my eyes closed and the volume fairly loud. Without any warning, when I'm expecting to hear a phoneme, I get blasted with sound from one of your animations. I go to the volume adj and turn "all other sounds" all the way down. I return to the program and the animation plays quietly. However, the very next time an animation occurs, it is back to full volume. I should note that this behavior is consistent throughout the program. It is very annoying and ruins my concentration. Would someone from Posit please acknowledge this bug and offer some hope that it might be fixed?
JP
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JP - In my earlier response I noted that QA confirmed that after you close the program, your volume settings will revert back to default. To be clear, the "bug" you are reporting is that you are presented with sound from the animations when you are expecting a phoneme. Is this correct? This was not reported previously in this thread.
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Inappropriate?Arielle: Excuse me for not being more clear. My problem is that the volume is constantly resetting to default. Not only when I exit the program, not only when I move from one exercise to the next, but even within the same exercise. The volume adj. never holds.
I understand it is your intention to interrupt the exercises with these little interludes and the fact that I have my eyes closed while doing the exercise on the keypad accentuates the element of surprise. But my problem is I have absolutely no control over the volume of these "other sounds". As soon as i change the setting it is forgotten and it reverts back to default. And at the risk of repeating myself, it is very disturbing.
JP
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Ah, I see now. Thank you for clarifying. I will escalate this issue to technical support.
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lucky you jimmy getting to try a new version! any luck there? i'm watching the space as i also run a mac on 10.4.11. i only ever use the colours theme because the sound effects bug me so much and interfere with my concentration.
i just read through this thread whole and realised the suggestion i made earlier has been discussed here. still, based on jimmy's experience it seems no matter what i do it'll make no difference. fiddling with the volume slider (and surely arielle doesn't mean between every high-or-low etc) is simply not an option for me. -
Inappropriate?I have to turn the volume up and down on my computer to change the volume on the exercises as I am doing them. Some are too loud, some too soft. I wish there was a greater volume range so I didn't have to do this.1 Comment Add a comment
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The best suggestion I can make on this problem is to purchase headphones with a volume slider on the cord. This will help you adjust the volume quickly with your hands. The volume button in the program is in the lower left corner, however it's still a pain to adjust it and disrupt the exercise. I'd recommend the KOSS UR29 headphones, which are available on Amazon for $20.
